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Variations on a Theme - Lets make a DVD!  Btw, the title is tentative, if you can come up with something wittier than "Variations on a Theme", please do!! As you've surely seen by now, the weekly poll is asking us to choose a favorite genre. The next weekly poll will ask us to choose a particular theme within the genre (or for something really fun, a theme which mixes the first and second place genre choices, for example "Horror-Comedy"). And then Phase 1 of the contest begins. Phase 1 is "lets see who can write the best short script based on the winning theme". I'd like to give no more than 2 weeks for this, but at the same time, I'd like to see at least 10 entries. Does this sound reasonable? On Week 3 we'll vote to decide which script wins. Thus ends Phase 1, with a nice radio party, as its quickly becoming tradition :) Phase 2 is "lets see who can make the best film based on the winning script". For this I'd like to devote a month, but at the same time, I'd like at least 10 entries. Again, does this sound like too much to ask? If you think so, please give me feedback, we can always adjust. And this is where the "Variations on a Theme" name comes in. You see, kinda like the earliest stage of Project Greenlight, we cinephiles will be able to deconstruct and really, really analyze what makes each director unique when we see them all working from the same script. The potential for cafe discussion is nearly endless, and so are the potential games. For example, should we post all 10 films without credits and then play a game of "match the movie to the director"? Something I learned from McKee is that creativity thrives under the pressure of restrictions. Its our limitations, not the lack of them, what makes us creative, what -forces- us to find new solutions and think outside the box. Working from the same script everyone else is working... is, at least in my eyes, a -delicious- challenge, an opportunity to show why my voice is unique, what makes me different, dare I say, what makes someone stand out. Its a competition as fair as a lab experiment. Heck, if OTL had forced contestants to all work from the same script, it would have been a lot more watchable. And then of course, we vote and choose a winner. What an honor to be crowned best among your peers in this fair-and-square experiment. If needed, we could impose maximun budget caps to have an even even-er playing field? Now the good part: we can gather all the scripts, and all the films, add 3-minute interviews with all the writers, and all the directors, audio commentary, .. and cram it all inside a smartly designed DVD. Now who would buy 10 versions of the same film? Filmmakers would. Students of cinema, cinephiles, people who have taken our art beyond the level of entertainment and are looking to dissect it, to find the soul of the beast and cage it, at least from an academic point of view. I can see film schools using this DVD in class. I can see pundits citing the little "lab experiment" to validate their own conclusions on this or that. Any profits the DVD makes, would go one fourth to whoever wins Phase 1 (the winning writer), one fourth to whoever wins Phase 2 (the winning director), and the rest in equal shares to all other contestants (writers and directors). That is the basic idea. Now, what are your thoughts? Also, can I have at least 10 writers to commit to this, and 10 directors to commit to this? I only want to start spinning our wheels and going after this full speed if we have all the people we need. Please post back and tell us if you're willing to do this, as a writer, as a director, or both. Lets do this!! I think it'll be fun, educational, and maybe profitable! Submitted by FableForge on November 15, 2007 - 3:43pm. |
I like it
great idea
I have a handicap it is not easy to found speaking native english actors here
but we will see what we can do
:)
Do it in spanish my friend! I'll help subtitle!
I'll be more than glad to subtitle your work!! 100%!
WOHOO! 1 director down and 9 to go!! :)
Go Pirates!!
Blimey
Marco, will you never cease with the clever ideas?? I love the idea of all directors working from the same script, that's a concept that's always intruiged me. Count me in as a writer and director.
YES YES! muahahah!
The planets are starting to align!
I of course, will participate as Writer and Director too (dont ask me how I'll do the second part), so that means we have 3 directors down and 7 to go, and 2 writers down and 8 to go! Good good!
name suggestions:
Just some off the top of my head...
Direct Perspectives
Visual Voices
How many Directors does it take to Shoot One Script?
*shrugs* Yeah, that's all I got. Though I'd come up with more. Maybe later.
Me likey
Good names..... I like the word "perspective" and "voices" because they really represent what this is...
.. "Find your voice".. .hmm... what makes us unique... "By your deeds they shall know you" and so forth. Good one! Also loved the take on a joke, "How many X does it take to Y?". Good one! Lets keep them in mind! Also think that if it works out and makes money, (two big ifs, but plausible), we would want to do it again, so it has to be a sequel-friendly name :)
Anyway, good stuff!
themes...
themes... hmm....
Love is blind
you can accomplish anything if you set your mind to it
There's no I in team
Home is where the heart is
You can't always get what you want
Practice makes perfect
Sharing is caring
More, more!
Keep'em coming! The funny thing is: unless trends suddenly change during the weekend, its looking like the script will be a charming Horror-Comedy hybrid.... heh! :)
So... "Practice Makes Perfect" in horror comedy... would be, I dont know, a newbie serial killer just bungling a lot? (like sending cut-and-paste notes to the police, but leaving his fingerprints all over?) lol
"Sharing is caring" ... a family of cannibals rediscovers their bonds by sharing a family of campers? OH MAN!
This could be FUN! So.. yeah! lets hear more themes! Any more ideas Brendan? Anyone else, any more ideas? I'll pick between 5 to 10 for next week's poll, and then screenwriting can begin :)
Oh, and a brendan, can we count on you as a director? Or writer, or both?
mmmh nice idea... Count
mmmh nice idea... Count with me. We will see if I will participate with Victor, as 1 entry, or 2 entry... anyway, that's juicy and fun...
The theme... I'm not afraid of nothing, I'm prepared to the death, so I will assume my destiny, hahahaha. Anyway, If I have to burn a house for the script, i will try to do my best... :P
oftopic: Marco I went for the book today... it looks amazing! :D
Excelente!
Most awesome! For now I'll count you together with Victor while others jump in, but if we end up with just 9 directors, I hope you dont mind I'll count you separately and make 10 :)
And yes, thats the pirate way! Pillage and burn! Yoho!
Awesome about the book, I hope you like it!
Marco: suggestion
I'm interested in directing.
And, if interested, I'd really love to do the DVD menu design and building. I am not as interested in creating special features, but Id love to create the DVD and packaging.
Also, I think you're talking a 2-3 disc set here. 3 minute interviews of potentially 20 different people is 60 minutes.
If each film is 12 minutes in length, 10 films will be exactly 2 hours worth of "films".
Then, if you do audio commentaries, that's another 2 hours of content.
You can fit about 2 to 2.5 hours on to a DVD, if you keep quality high. This will run about 3 discs. It is possible to put these to Duel-layer discs, which would allow for us to fit this in to 2 discs. Then, we can have these replicated and sold with professional packaging, bar codes, etc.
The cool thing is that, as this is an educational product as opposed to a "movie", it can be sold with the going rate of educational/training products. I propose a $99 price for a 3-disc set. If you're looking at classroom use, this is a fair price, perhaps even on the low end.
And, I'd also reccomend the breakdown of that DVD profit be 20% to the winning writer, 20% to the winning director, 10% to KarmaCritic for reserve to have more copies made if you sell out, 10% for DVD design and artwork compilation, and the remaining 40% being split among the other 18 participants. I use 18 becase I'm operating under the assumption that you have 10 writers and 10 directors. Obviously, you will have less as a few people will try their hands at both.
Anyway, I'd love to be a part of the marketing process of this DVD, as well.
heh heh, educational horror
heh heh, educational horror comedies.
I volunteer to do some
I volunteer to do some directing!
"There Comes a Time in Every Man's Life When He Must Spit on His Hands, Hoist the Black Flag, and Start Slitting Throats."
-HL Mencken
Half the battle is done!
Amazing ED!!
We got
Only 4 spots left as of this morning! When they're gone they're gone! :)
Sounds interesting...but you are forgeting the "business" side
...of the "art."
If you want to make a real live product to be sold, to possibly work, you cannot just say "the director gets" blah blah...
Really, in this case, the "director" you are talking about is the entire above the line and below the line production company-less the writer.
That would be like the entire Dreamworks crew on Shrek (including Micheal Myers, Eddie Murphy, etc) and Dreamworks SKG, getting paid the same portion of the total production profits as the writer was paid for scripting Shrek.
That makes no sense.
If you are serious about this, an allowance needs to be made to the "production company" for their budget spent or allocated to the project first, then profits, if any will be taken later.
There is a lot of legal red tape too, volumes of it.
What happens if someone quits midstream?
Who/which entity owns the DVD rights? How is the ownership held? Which state?
Copyright infringement insurance/script "clearance", verifcication of actor releases, just like making a real movie.
I think if someone wants to sell something, that sounds good to me, but there is a lot of red tape to cover, it is called "producing" before this will work (nothing is in the profit share for that by the way).
Good to see the "wheels" turning though.
I know this is the brainstrorming phase, but if someone can package it, from the ground up, right, it may work or at least be worth a try.
JOHN MEREDITH
WWW.MEREDITHFILMS.COM
Copyrights, Paperwork and other Contract Issues
This is all handled quite easily, actually.
The scripts are paid the same as the "production company" becuase in essence, the DVD is a KarmaCritic product. The winning script writer can fill out an agreement, generated by KarmaCritic, allowing that script to be made by the "production companies". Those "companies" will then have to sign an agreement that gives KarmaCritic permission to package their film for sale, and also, to pay them a "roylaty" or "profit sharing" of the DVD sales. This can be a 1 page form. I did it with my co-author of the book I published.
Otherwise, it could be set up as a Limited Partnership, with the GP being KarmaCritic and everyone else being the LP. This gets difficult though as the LPs are in several states and countries. So, governing laws will vary over the partnership. I think the best option is from the paragraph above this one.
And, whoever handled the selling of the DVD would need to keep on file, a W-9 for each person receiving money on this project. And, it'd be up to that person(s) to disperse funds to the rest. Again, as a KarmaCritic "product", it's up to KarmaCritic who gets what. The "company" is only agreeing that "their" film is participating in said transaction. If they wish to package the film separately, as part of some other deal later, they are free to do so.
As for the "companies" making the films, they just have actors sign general release forms (and liability waivers!!!), and whatever other general forms they wish to have filled out. I've done this myself, it's not difficult, just a signature on a few sheets of paper, which their are templates for online. You can tailor them to your needs, and simply "fill in the blanks". As for copyrights, each "company" holds rights to their film, each writer to their script, and KarmaCritic to the DVD. It sounds more complicated than it really is.
As for allocation of profits, the reason the term "director" is used for a portion is becuase that "director/company" then makes agreements to what they will pay their actors/crew, if they offer payment to them, at all.
I think for the sake of the "contest" aspect, each "company" should not be reimbursed for what they spend on a budget, if they spend anything. That is totally at that director's discretion, and I agree that their should be a cap on what can be spent to level the playing field. But, whatever equipment one has access to, should not be limited to their usage.
For the DVD profits, as I see it, would be defined as any money over the cost of packaging the DVD. At about $3 - $5 per package for replication (etc.) will be easily recouped with the 10% I was suggesting that KC take back for creating additional copies in the future (based on a $99 retail price). I don't think Marco's intent is to profit himself. At least, he doesn't seem to be concerned about that. I only suggested the 10% to have a reserve for additional copies to be made, based on that assumption.
Other than the above, there really isn't much else that has to be done. I suppose the DVD could be registered with the Copyright office under KarmaCritic (if it's a separate business entity) or under Marco's name. But, the individual films should remain the copyright of their individual creators and of course they would be filed with the Copyright office separately as well. Either the DVD or the individual films would have to be registered as being part of a dirivitive work, as you can't "double copyright" an item. Although, scripts can be registered separately from the film, just as a manuscript can be registered separately from it's published book form.
I guess I just don't see this as a big deal. There is a good checklist that needs to be accomplished, but it's nothing that none of us couldn't handle.
P.S.
Although, I guess it does get interesting deciding if this money is prize monies, royalties, dividends, et al.
But, this is another reason why I'd like to be involved in the marketing, packaging, etc. of the DVD.
The way I see it, the flat 20% or 25% is what is "won". First winner gets 20%, second winner gets 20%. All others share a prize of 40%. That's if you count it as "prize" money. Otherwise, it's just simple agreement forms for it to be counted as "business" income, like I mentioned above.
There are several options for this. And, all in all, 20% or 25% is better than 00%, which is what 99.999999% of all filmmakers usually make from creating short films.
Reading posts like this makes me love you, Eric
In a very manly way, no worries!! :)
But really Eric, seeing you coming out to bat like this is freaking inspiring man, my respect for you which is already pretty high goes up several many notches :) Nothing is cooler than a guy being presented with a seemingly boggling problem, and replying "its actually quite easy", very smooth!
I'll just use this post to reply most of what you've said, if I can, I hope I dont miss anything:
DVD compilations, artwork, menus, etc: YES eric! Please, please do it. I was planning to do it myself, but I'm the first to admit you could do something 10 times better, g-g-go for it!
Price per unit to the public: I'd say we use this formula:
Price=cost+150% (of cost).
So, if it costs 5 dollars to make a DVD, we'll sell it for 15 dollars. Of those 15 dollars, 5 go towards recovering the replication cost, and 10 can be considered profit and split.
Profit Split: In the example above, the price was 15 bucks, but only 10 are considered profit. These are the 10 dollars I'll be talking about in the following split, the other 5 are gone de-facto to the replicating company. Okay:
Budget Cap: Lets set a budget cap at 250 dollars for production. Is this reasonable? Feedback?
Eric, you're right when you said I'm not looking to make a profit for myself. Most likely, since I'll enter as both writer and director, I'll end up entitled to two of the 18 shares of the last 40% slice of the pie, like everyone else who doesnt win, and thats fine for me. My objective is not money, I just want to get the KC name out there and have a fun experiment on what makes filmmakers tic :)
Now, if we get a deal to sell this DVD in WalMart...... hehehehe :)
Anyway, once we have firm answers for the few questions here, I'll put it all together in a formal document, and we'll go by it, kinda like we did with the SUBLIM Terms and Conditions.
I agree
I agree
:)
Cool...
Good points, once you guys iron out all the legal stuff, i'll take another look at the collaboration.
JOHN MEREDITH
WWW.MEREDITHFILMS.COM
Interesting...
we'll be MILLIONARES... :)
W-w-w-w-welcome!
Just wanted to give ya the official welcome aboard post! You're director number 6 out of 10, 4 spots left! After seeing your work with the OFF THE LOT short, I totally have high expectations of what you can do :) Have fun with this! :)
I agree with stuff
Yeah, I don't see it being to complicated. Alot of those 48 hour competitions release DVDs of the entries...and the contestants only have to fill out like a page of paperwork. Plus actor and location releases, but like Eric said, that's pretty run-of-the-mill.
A couple points I disagree with...I don't think it would have to be multiple discs. 10 films at 10 minutes is an hour 40 min. 2-3 min interviews with 10 people is another 30 minutes. (unless you're planning on having interviews with writers for the scripts tha weren't shot?) Either way, there will probably be alot of doubling up. And then if you do commentaries, that's just an audio track, so it won't take up near as much space as the videos. That should just fit onto a single DVD. Remember that not all the movies will be right at 10 min. either.
And I dunno about a $99 price tag (especially if it's on one DVD). I'd like to think that cinephiles, like myself, would be interested in this. But at 99 bucks, you're basically limiting this only to educational use. I'd like to think of it as a collecter's item that doubles as educational use.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Economical for the Consumer vs. the Producers.
Number of Discs:
This could fit on one disc if, as you said, the films were 10 minutes each and we didn't interview everyone. But, if we do, and -- this is more likely -- we add more content for this "experiment", we would need 2-discs (more than likely Duel Layer for DVD-9 replication). And, you wouldn't want to start compressing things.
I was just throwing out numbers based on Marco's original post, which seemed to suggest interviewing everyone, because Marco sees this as more of a experiment than "making a movie" for entertainment. The educational aspect is what makes this marketable. If it's just seen as a compilation of short films, I don't think it will sell. (When do short films ever make money on their own?)
There could be a video on Auteur styles. Something more "philisophical" about how one script could be made so many ways. (Which, Marco, this made me think of a nice reference for tying in to a title. How about "One Script to rule them all. And, in Production, bind them.")
We could actually place all 10 scripts on the DVD as PDF files for people to read and analyze.
There are lots of additional possibilities.
Price:
I stand by my $99 price. As this is a specialty item, and not a movie, it merits a higher price. Especially if you can pack more special features in to the package, as "cirriculum". Plus, you're not buying the disc, you're buying the content on the disc. $99 is actually really decent. The norm is $800 - $1,000 for ONE disc at about 20 minutes of duration. I think that's way too expensive, if I'm looking at buying it, based on the disc. But, when you look at it as buying the information, and the amount of content being purchased, it's not as bad. I think, even marketed as an educational/specialty item, filmmakers would still buy it outside of a school setting, becuase many really wish to learn this craft. I doubt many would buy this to just watch it. $99 is also a price that tells you who is serious and who isn't, about the information you are providing them. If they won't pay that, then they probably wouldn't pay to take classes on the subject either. In comparison, to use a person most of us are familiar with, I believe Robert McKee charges a several hundred dollars to attend a 2-3 hour seminar.
Now, if none of us believe this is a specialty item, that has no educational value, than the price could be dropped. But, also, if you're hoping to cover costs of something like replicaton and revenue to those involved -- a $15 - $20 price just won't cut it.
If you charged $15. The winning writer would get, $3. The winning "production" would get, $3. KarmaCritic would get $1.50 (which won't even recoup the replication expenses of about $4-$5 per package). And, the DVD creator would get $1.50 That leaves $6 that I will generously say is divided between 12 more people (becuase some will double up. Again, I was just going by Marco's original figures before). That means each person would receive 40 cents. Most of these figures aren't bad, but KarmaCritic would need at least 3-1/2 times more than $1.50 just to be able to make additional copies when the intial set sells out.
If we can contain this to a 1-disc package, than the price could easily be $40. I wouldn't advise going lower than that. If 2-discs (and I don't think we'd be anywhere close to going to three discs), than we could get by with $50.
I understand that audio takes up less space than video, but do any of the DVD authoring programs allow a video to have multiple audio tracks that can be toggled? The only way I've been able to do an audio commentary in the past, is to place the movie twice. One having the audio commentary. One being the actual audio.
If toggling can be done, than the movies and audio commentaries could fit on one disc. The interviews can be put on there as well, if a Duel Layer disc is used. Then, you've got your full disc right there. Duel layer is probably what we want to use anyway because all replicated discs (that you buy of Hollywood productions) are all of that DL capacity. So, there would be no problem with discs being read by anyone's DVD players.
I was alloting 2-discs because there might be a chance that Marco or someone else, thinks up more content that could be placed wtih this. If we have more content to put in -- we're back to the $99 price being justified. So, that's my last reason for $99 -- to think ahead that more content might be added.
We can't get away with a $15-$20 price with so many people involved and the normal costs of replication. The only way that would work, is if we made up for price with volume. And, even then a $15 - $20 price still puts the "production" costs of the DVD in to a deficit. KarmaCritic needs $4 - $5 back per copy sold, which means with current percentages being given, the price cannot be lower than $40, and $50 would cover the high end. Sure, the writers and Producers could get less, but I don't think Marco wants to "take away" from anyone for KarmaCritic.
Anyway, that's the "defense" of my proposal. If we can make it cheaper with all the math working out -- than that'd be great. I just don't see our break-even point being less than $40 - $50 per "set". In the end, the price would be determined by whatever replication costs are accrued. My $4 - $5 range is only an estimate. It may be less, but I don't see it going higher than $6 or $7.
Anyway, I have to get to work. I won't be back on until late tonight. Take care, all.
Eric
Discs, features, price
Hey man, lemme know what you think of the formula of simply making the unitary price cost plus profit, where profit equals 150% of the cost. As for how many discs, you're the expert there once again. You know something that would REALLY add value to this product? That's right people: BEHIND THE SCENES FOOTAGE. That would be the full package. I'm thinking, as a cinephile, as a student of the art, watching HOW a movie got made would be as illuminating of the mind of the director as watching the movie itself...
On the other hand, the less discs we have, the lower the price, the higher the chances of people buying this. Best case scenario would be to somehow cram everything together in one disc, maybe by sacrificing video and audio quality a little bit? again, I dont know, we'll cross that bridge when we get there, its going to depend on the quality of the materials we send to Eric for the compilation. We'll get there :)
Oh, are we only taking the
Oh, are we only taking the first 10 directors to respond? I thought it would be more open to everyone as a free for all, then we'd vote for the top ten (and top one). And that you were just collecting blood oaths from us that we would...so, you know, we could. Anyway, I've got a buddy up in Alaska who might be interested in this. I better get ahold of him quick!
Ooh, wait a minute, I like that idea!!
Open the contest to everybody, but then simply take just the top 10! And yes, having 10 people do a blood oath prevents and worse-case-scenario, you know, that makes a lot of sense! Lets do it that way! Everyone's welcome, the top 10 will be chosen, but I wish to have at least 10 promises collected before the official get-go!
Makes sense! Say hi to your buddy in Alaska, we need him here! :)
I'm not sure about any
I'm not sure about any other DVD programs, but DVD Studio Pro easily lets you add toggling audio tracks to a video track. I've had 5 different audio commentaries for one of my flicks. It's not a problem.
And if something like Lord of the Rings can fit onto one disc with some bonus features (I think the original releases were one disc, weren't they? I only have the extended cuts...which DEF. don't fit on one disc) But anyway, if we do want to add behind the scenes bits and whatnot, then we'd probably want to go two discs anyway. However, I don't see that being to big a problem either. I don't know about high end DVD production, but for my home authoring , adding another disc is about 25 cents for the second disc, and maybe 25 cents more for the case. And I guess 10 cents for the second label. I'm sure proffessional authoring will be more, but should still be proportionally minimal. I mean 2-disc sets usually run the same as 1 disc DVDs at the store.
As far as price, without knowing the details of the final product...I kinda feel something $35-$40 would be appropriate. You know...the same as a Criterion DVD.
Anyway, I mean no disrespect to you, Eric, with these posts. You obviously know alot more about the technical stuff than I do. I just wanted to pose some questions.
Jeeze, that sounds more
Jeeze, that sounds more expensive tham a Critterion Collection DVD.
99 dollars?...I missed that... or... thought it was a typo!
LOL!
Did you mean .99 cents , maybe, per download?
JOHN MEREDITH
WWW.MEREDITHFILMS.COM
Chiming in late ...
... but this seems like a great idea and it seems like we have a whole crew of experienced, balanced people that can guide project this to success. I would love to jump on board, but I am not sure if I can commit to the time. Dang!
"When a man lies, he murders some part of the world." - Merlin
"The giants have fallen!!! Let us retake Valhalla!" - Me
Time is the question!
You mean one month may be too little time to turn up a short? Well, how about 2 months? We're in the brainstorming phase still, nothing's set in stone yet. What does everyone think? 2 weeks to come up with scripts, 1 week to choose a winner, 4 (or 8?) weeks to film the short, 1 week to choose a winner? What does everyone think? The only short I've produced is CAMERA GUY, and I shot it in one day (it shows!) with Sol's help, so I dont have the experience to make educated guesses here, you guys tell me what's reasonable, we're flexible :)
Awesome! Good Revision!
I've read the posts here. Plenty of good things posted since this morning.
First, DVD Studio Pro. That's the MAC program, correct? I have a PC, but Adobe has a DVD authoring program. I don't know if it toggles, but I can look in to it. (BTW, sidenote. A brilliant business move on Apple's part, would be to release the FCP studio for PC. Especially now that they use Intel procs.)
Second, if we operate under the guidelines that KC gets the first X dollars to cover costs, with the ramining being the profits -- then I think a $20 - $25 price is fair for 2-disc set. I've not priced this stuff in full detail, but in basic skimmed research I've done, I would guess that a 2-disc set would run us about $5-$7 per package. That includes the disc, the box, the printing, the replicating, the shrink wrapping, etc. The only requirement is that most replicators want a minimum of 1,000 quantity ordered. The replicator I'd like to go with, only requires 500, as a minimum.
So, here is the biggest question: if it costs; lets say $6 to make, at a 500 quantity order, we would have to figure out a way to pay $3,000. Then, we have an inventory of 500 copies for sale. I say we only do 500 at a time. If we get swamped, we can do more (based on the money set back from previous purchaes), but we don't want to overstock. That initial $3,000 is the biggest hurdle.
BUT, first things first -- we don't have to worry about that until we have a product ready to go. :) I've got a few ideas on getting some online retailers (like Amazon) to carry the product, but that's also an issue a far ways off for deciding. Ideally, we want stores to handle the product and not us. In reality, we will probably handle alot of it, as "self-distributed". Wal-mart would be cool, if they'd take the product. I bet we'd have to be the ones to give them product thought, unless we can get a distributor for this project. (I think replication/self-distribution will be less tape to cut through and less non-KC hands in the profits.) Most of this will have to be handles, as each issue arises. Maybe we should worry about content first...then decide if we have a DVD to make.
But anyway, in short. I think Marco's formula is much, much, MUCH better! My only thought is to bump the 150% up a tad, to maybe 200%.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the cost is $5. 150% of $5, plus $5 is actually $12.50, not $15. Right? Becuase 100% of $5 is $5. 50% of $5 is $2.50. $2.50 + $5 = $7.50, then add the cost... that's $12.50.
But, I'm not good at word problems in math. What about just saying a flat fee of $20 - $25?
If we're taking "cost" out up front...then that's not a problem. It's only a problem if we build cost recouperation in to the "profit sharing".
Thirdly, and last -- 2-discs are quite doable. I would just pack all the material in to two (1 sided) duel-layer discs. We need those for replication purposes anyway...so you're talking roughly 9.4GB per disc (actual is less becuase 1GB isn't an exact 1,000MB, but instead is 1,024MB). And, video quality, at that size, would be about 8.00Mbps. That's the full quality, as far as I can tell, of any standard DVD. I don't even want to get in to HD or blu-ray possibilites. haha.
So, to recap. My "vote" is for $20-$25 price (with our replication costs taken out up front), and we go 2 discs, 1-sided, on duel-layer discs. That's roughly 8 hours of material. I'm not sure of this, but I don't think replicator services like anything even slightly compressed. I heard it messes with the process, but I don't know enough about it, to know the details.
Oh, and yeah, I'll check in to Adobe's DVD software for toggling audio tracks. I have access to the program, but do not own it personally. Although, I hope to get some authoring program before Christmas.
Yep!
Yeah, DVD Studio Pro is for the Mac. I switched allegiences awhile ago. I've never used any PC DVD programs, but Studio Pro is really good. I would imagine most programs can add toggling audio streams. Commentaries are one of the biggest features of DVDs and it's a pretty simple process.
And yes, Apple should offer most of their programs for PC...and likewise, game developers should offer more games for Mac. Alas.
Mac vs. PC
I don't really have an allegence, as I see pros and cons to PC and MAC. I'd like to get a MAC, becuase there are so many cool things you can do production-wise with MAC software. However, I can't afford a MAC. They are just too expensive. I can spend that same amount on custom building a PC and have 5 times more than what I'd get inside the MAC.
However, if MAC released their production software for PC....I'd jump that bandwagon in a heartbeat. Adobe's stuff isn't too bad, but I'm still not convinced it's up to par "professionally" as other systems like Final Cut or AVID (which I've never seen), or systems like Media 100 or Pinnicle. Some of those systems are machines by themselves. They do nothing but editing, and therefore are uber expensive. I had heard that AVID was close to $20,000. (Twenty Thousand, for those who might think that's a typo.)
Anyway, I can get access to DVD Studio Pro, but I'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
3000 = Ouch!
I dont know where the 3000 will come from... my wife would likely behead me (not in a good way) if I paid all that up front.
But anyway, we'll have to cross that bridge when we get there, like you said, first we see if we have a content (I think we will! Seriousdog joined from alaska yesterday for this purpose (thanks OuchMouth!!) and Chaz showed interest, so we probably have 8 directors now) and then we'll see how to sell it. I wish the equivalent of Lulu.com existed for DVD, a pay-on-demand kind of thing. We'll see, we'll find a way!
We Will Find A Way
I have an idea on how to make this happen...I'll wait until we get close to that time before getting in to it though.
As you said, we'll find a way. I'm not worried about any of it, I just wanted you to be aware that there would be an upfront cost.
I too like the idea of a "print/order on demand". I'm not sure that exists yet for disc replication. I know it does for books, which is beautiful, but the replication companies want a minimum order for this reason. It's more expensive to print 1 disc at a time, than it is to print hundreds at a time.
So, 500 packages are cheaper to produce than 50. And 1,000 is cheaper than 500. So, their prices aren't set in stone. When you go to have a project done, you fill out a sheet of what you want, and they give you a quote on what it will cost. And, that will largely be determined by the quantity, which 500 is the minimum. This company I'd go with...no one else has that minimum...they all have their minimum set at 1,000 copies. Therefore, any other company, we'd be looking at approx. $6,000.
Anyway, I'll be "shopping around" to see what's available.
Alright, brainstorm is coming to an end, lets set stuff in stone
Alright, it seems most people who were going to vote have voted and the genre is going to be that curious little hybrid called "horror-comedy". I need theme ideas!
From Brendan, we got:
you can accomplish anything if you set your mind to it
There's no I in team
Home is where the heart is
You can't always get what you want
Practice makes perfect
Sharing is caring
Anyone else?
Also, are we fine with the other parameters of the contest, namely 2 weeks for script and 2 months for film? Are we fine with directors getting 4 times the share of writers, on the assumption that they later share it with the crew? We're willing to have a second camera shooting "behind the scenes"? Everything otherwise good?
During a week off, I'll poll for the name of this contest. I dont particularly dislike "Variations of a Theme", it brings good memories of classical music, but OuchMouth had some great ideas:
Direct Perspectives
Visual Voices
How many Directors does it take to Shoot One Script?
Anyone else? Also, we got directors so far (in no particular order)
For writers, we have much less and it worries me!
C'mon writers!! Do I have to make a special announcement call? Maybe they're busy post-SUBLIM, shiver-me-timbers! (I miss pirate day).
Alright, thats all I've got. I'm going to start making official pages and such, as the brainstorm phase nears the end... sail on mateys!
MARCO -- Me Write You Script
I'll "take a stab" at writing. haha. I've never done horror before...so I suppose I can try it. The fact that comedy is in there...it doesn't have to take itself too seriously...so why not?
I'll give it the ol' college try. haha. Do I have to come up with the idea or are you looking for ideas for writers to use?? I'm wondering since you're asking people for ideas.
(BTW, I think the best comedy-horror are the Morgan and Wong episodes of X-Files and Millennium. hee hee. Ah, my inspiration for this genre. HA!)
Question
Also, I'm wondering if I might request that script be allowed 1 month, and producing be allowed 2 months. (Shooting double the time of writing.) Just my preference, as I'm a slow writer. And, because all of us are busy...this is sort of an "off-hours" thing for us.
Do you wish this all to be done quickly? What I mean, is there a reason to move faster or slower for this? Do we have a deadline that must be met?
If not, I think it'd be good to take some time at this...not too much, but some time to really make this quality. 2 months is good for a 10 min film. Especially with a script already in place at that point.
But we would have to have script breakdown, coordinating actors who'd have to memorize lines, etc. That should probably be allowed 1-2 weeks by itself. The film essentially has to go Pre through Post. It's not just Directing.
I guess another question I have, do we have to follow the script religiously? Can some modifications be done? In a real film, when a script is bought, the studios do this. I ask, becuase if someone, like myself, doesn't have $250 to spend...the script may have to be adjusted to whatever budget people have to work with (not exceeding $250). And, I think it'd be interesting to see what people do with the script, even if they play with the length.
That's my thoughts.
No particular timeline, loosey-goosey rules
Both statements of this comment's subject require clarification!
There's no particular dated event that compels us to be done within a certain timeline, so there's no problem giving one month to the script and two months for the shooting. But once we set those dates in stone, they'll be.. er.. petrified :) (thank you all, I'm here all week, try the fish!)
As for -interpreting- a script, by all means, thats what the contest/experiment is about! As long as follow the script reasonably close (by which I mean, no different than how a regular production would deviate from a purchased script), then its all about freedom and how -you- interpret this story. I want to repeat something OuchMouth said above: sometimes the fun is in taking something you dont particularly like, and by clever twisting and light-stepping, making it your own. Originally I felt I would be at a total loss if the genre was comedy, but then I imagine it would force me to try new stuff and see what I'm capable of outside of my confort zone. Just wanted to repeat that, not that I'm replying to anything you said (mind's free associating at this point).
Thanks for joining up as a writer! We now have:
Did I miss anyone? Only 5 spots to go! :)
I'll do it if I like the
I'll do it if I like the script. But I demand a descent body count.
Actually...... If I come up with a good idea I'll volunteer to be a writer. I didn't notice that you could submit yourself in both categories till just now.
That's half the fun!
Getting a script that maybe you're not a huge fan of, and being able to turn it on it's head with your style as a director!
I'd like a shorter writing
I'd like a shorter writing period than a longer one. Two weeks sound fine. My reasoning for that is a looming deadline will push me to actually write, whereas a month deadline, I'd probably end up putting it off until a couple days before. But that's just me and my issues with procrastination. So I'll deal with whatever is decided.
And I'll go ahead and throw out some themes:
men are from mars, women are from venus
No matter where you're at, there you are.
Jesus Saves (I would love to see the horror-comedies that come from that theme!!)
Jesus Saves!!
The rest of you take damage!
Sorry, couldnt help myself, I'm a RPG geek.(link not for the faint of heart)
YES, I would love to see a horror-comedy on that theme, wow!
Anyway, back on topic, you know personally I'm with you with the short writing term thing. I work the same way, for instance I wrote the zombie school script in like a day since deciding I was going to, because I knew time was of the essence to qualify for the youtube contest. Since then, I've decided to write two more on that "universe" and I already have the stories in my head, but.. without a deadline.. procratination consumes me! We're the same bro. So, if we make it a month for writing, then you and I will just get started on the last two weeks after seeing what everyone else is doing :) We'll have the advantage, muahaha!
I'll join in
I'l totally be a writer/director for this project! Also, when I did my documentary, I had discmakers do the final DVD prouction once we