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Camp Machete PDF File: Hehehehe! It was fun :) Logline: Teenagers follow slasher movie rules to survive Submitted by FableForge on December 9, 2007 - 7:31pm. |
Alright! Just finished
Alright! Just finished it. Hmm...considering the very self reflective nature of the script, I think I'm going to take a moment to reflect on the script myself before putting anything down.
Insecurity strikes!!
Aahhh, I couldnt help myself and I ended up adding a whole new scene at the end just this morning, and changed a lot of details here and there! You dont have to read it again, just the last scene at the end :)
[biting fingernails!]
And I'm back!
Alright, well now that I've had time to digest it and read the revision:
Anyhow, I really like it for the most part. It's very well written and the dialogue is all good. For a sub-genre that's been exploited time and time again (the self referential horror movie) you actually found ways to make it fun and fresh. First I'll start with issues I had, though.
Jerome hardly has any lines. He's the only one who doesn't say anything durring the opening cacophany of voices. Perhaps this is a deliberate jab at how Hollywood misuses the black man...but I'd say pump up his character...just a bit more. Maybe he's muttering over the map or what not.
I like the line where Alex asks what all these cliques of people are doing together, but shit, throw in the ethnicity bit too. Have him say something about an overly PC producer or something.
So I was actually suprised at how much I liked most of Alex's ranting. Like I said, we've seen characters telling us the "rules" of horror movies ever since Scream. But you made it feel fairly fresh. Maybe it's because Alex trully thinks he's IN a movie...and also that he's not as savvy as he thinks he is, he keeps getting the rules confused and talking in circles. However the following passage did feel a bit too on the nose and just a repetition of Randy from Scream:
"ALEX
No, listen to me!! I don’t know
how, and it doesn’t really
matter right now, but somehow we
ended up in a movie. A slasher
movie. You need to obey the
rules: don’t make out, don’t
have sex, don’t go out alone-
THE CHEESE
Dude…
Alex points to The Cheese:
ALEX
Don’t be a disbeliever! Don’t
brag, do try to fall in love
though, but remember: if you’re
chased you’ll fall, the car’s
engine will –never- start at the
first try- "
However, this ending part does nearly save it. Like I said, it's funny when Alex forgets a rule, etc.
"BILLY
Hey, Alex, hey… calm down, man.
Don’t be a know-it-all?
ALEX
Shit, you’re right… I’m done
for."
And then, to be honest, the ending doesn't really work for me. This new ending is definately an improvement...but I'm still confused and it feels a bit forced. Like, what does Alex walking Fifi have to do with anything (and weren't they at the Motel Bates the night before?(I know continuity breaks down at the end, but still...)). I think it's funny if Alex is just crazy, but I'm not sure if the ending is supposed to imply that he is or if there is an omnicient writer or what...
But like I said, I did really like it for the most part. It felt fresh and funny. Your scripts are also always very readable, I like that, just the right amount of description and style and such. The old man's lines were a very clever MacGuffin....the wolves howling was nice...I also enjoyed the bit about the cat being "The last fake scare"
I'd still like to read your version of the bumbling serial killer though. :)
Wohoo!! Thankee much!
Here's the funny thing, I didnt even know there were other movies in the self-referential horror parody other than Scream, or maybe the Scary Movie series, but... well, the fact I only saw Scream many years ago doesnt help. I probably should rent at least one Scary Movie.
Yeah, Jerome is silent on purpouse, actually, in the first draft that Alex line about the different kinds of people, said "token black guy" instead of "tough guy". I shouldnt have chickened out, I shall bring back that line now!
Yeah, the ending breaks continuity. Two holes I'm aware of: 1.- I never explained -where- was Madison actually was all the time (that one bothers me, to be honest, I've thought of giving her headphones and an ipod or something) and 2.- the impossibility of alex and fifi (which Allison brings up) that one its kinda on purpouse, maybe the writer REALLY was going on a power trip.... heh... I dunno. Wanted to introduce something -truly- unexplained after all paranoia: maybe the old man had a vision of the future ghosts of alex and fifi?
If I come up with fixes for holes 1 and 2 I'll definitely update!
Man, I'm honored you gave me this review, thank you!
Haha...honored, eh? Well
Haha...honored, eh? Well I'm glad you feel that was, as I thought it was coming across as more negative than I had meant it. I really did like the script...it's just when I really like something, the small issues become that much bigger in my mind.
Anyhow, yeah, I'd definately switch it back to token black guy. Being a middle class white male, I'm always nervous about racial jokes and whatnot myself...but token black guy is a safe one I think.
But yeah, it seems like most teen horror movies these days have at least some little quip about horror movie wihtin them. Other than that there's alot of indie flicks that really abuse the irony (The Dead Hate the Living springs to mind). Then there's also all those "how to survive a horror movie" books.
Actually I started writing a script similar to this back in high school. It involved some characters getting sucked into a horror movie through a cursed video tape. And it's up to their horror movie savvy friend, who's now watching them in the movie and communicating through a cell phone to keep them alive.
Your idea is cool!!
I just watched a movie called "Stay Alive" about a cursed videogame that makes it so that if you die in the game you die in real life. Of course, the obvious answer: "dont play!" had to be worked around with a tacked-on rule "if you dont play they game will play itself anyway". Meh. Your idea is way way better!! .... very. Hmm... man, too many projects, too little time.
And yeah, I'm honored with the advice, because I can tell you really gave a lot of thought to this, and everything you said made total sense.
Good good good!
I'll have to write another now.... heheh, we'll see :)
This script is hilarious! I
This script is hilarious! I think the only problem is if we're going to sell this film, we might run into problems with the Metallica song.
Good point!!
I thought of it a little too late, and its a shame because the "Master" and "Puppets" theme go so well, specially in the ending with Alex "rebelling" :)
So, maybe we could change the lyrics a bit and task the directors with making a knockoff.. kinda like what we do for the Indiana Jones theme everytime we introduce ED's KarmaCritique on the Radio?
Glad you thought it was hilarious man, I'm honored!
I want to write another one though... I want one thats TRULY pants-offing scary.. and at the same time funny... this was mostly funny... I dont know if I can, we'll see :)
Amazing
Full of visuals power
funny too much
when all they say "aaaahhhhhhhgggg"and the girl say "aaaaaahhhhhgggg What!" before closing the door
"I said you I have the keys" it is just great
it is so hilarius and funny it has no price...
great it is a pet cemetery
but then I need more clues during all the story about
really a great option like so much
I have a problem I like so much also Hellion (so great story so simply an no one never was thinking about that is the best for a script, the original story that was alway there to some one to find it, this time it was just only for Outmouch)
and I love too cutting loose so great story
why we have to choose like always
lets make a "random variation on some themes"
just like too much the scripts are coming
so much talent in this site I mean
Gracias Capitan!!!
It feels so great to know people are laughing at the same lines that had me laughing! :)
You're right about the missing clues... the story is a bit absurd on purpose, although like I said to OuchMouth, there are plot holes I'd like to fill somehow, I havent thought about it very well yet.
I hear you my friend, I also loved Hellion big time!! Well, Brendan Morrisey said he wants to shoot Hellion no matter what, so maybe we'll see it in the screen even if it doesnt win.
Thanks so much for your comment, I feel with energy to write another! :)
Marco
I don't know what to say.
Has E read it?
It seems everyone loves here loves it. So, I am kinda out on my own, I guess.
I have to be honest, my brain glazed over after the first paragraph.
JOHN MEREDITH
WWW.MEREDITHFILMS.COM
Thanks for reading the first paragraph!!
Now try it sober :)
Nope, E hasnt read it, he is not much for reading from what I know, but I bet he would say I need to write more visually and put more words in caps :)
Marco
Just giving my opinion.
Plus everyone else loves it, so who cares if one person does not.
JOHN MEREDITH
WWW.MEREDITHFILMS.COM
YEAH...I RARELY READ SCRIPTS!
I hate reading scripts! I don't like reading my own scripts! haha
I probably should read this. But fuck I hate reading. And I'm commenting blindly here based on other people's thoughts and remarks. But I think I'll take another angle here and hope this makes sense.
SUBJECT: SHORT FILMS
I hate it when people read a short script or see a short film and say "that isn't original" "it's been done to death" "blah blah blah" SHUT THE FUCK UP! It's a fucking short film!
I still remember back in the ON THE LOT days when people hounded me for Unwritten Law cause it wasn't original. Who the fuck cares. A short film will never get theatrical release or make anyone any money and they aren't supposed to be the next Star Wars in five minutes or less.
Amatuers always tend to look at short films as if they were features. Stop it. Take your finger out of your ass, let the fart out and move on--no sense in holding all that gas and steam in!
Now you're gonna ask "what about Ezequiel's short films, why did you do them if you're talking shit man!". The difference is this. I'm a professional screenwriter and you're not. When I write, I make money. I made my short films cause I wanted a demo reel to show all the people in Hollywood that I am a director. NEVER WORKED. I'm talking from experience now. So I stopped writing. I stopped making short films. I went out and made a feature.
I THINK ALL OF YOU SHOULD DO THAT. Most of you don't have the Hollywood contacts or representation I do. Now imagine this--it was hard for me--imagine how much harder it is for all of you. So in order for you to get noticed, you have to make a feature. Slam out your credit card, do whatever you need to do and go make a real movie. Move to L.A., get out of Kentucky do your best to break in. If you're over 40, with no credits, I say give up or do it yourself. otherwise, SHUT UP.
Now, in re: to Mr. John Merediths comment. If you're the only one that doesn't like it, and everyone else does, then that probably means it just doesn't fit your taste and that's it. But when 100 people buy your product, and one doesn't, you still have a hit, so you're probably wrong and have bad taste or are a cynic and getting too involved over a fucking short film.
I actually spoke to Natasha Yi re: this subject last night. We talked about pushing LADY VENGEANCE. I said to her, "I really don't want to do another Lady Vengeance short film. And she replied, "neither do I, short films are like masturbating cause you're not getting laid" And I laughed and agreed. I'm in it for the real fuck, not my dick in my hand. The future of a Lady Vengeance feature was just fun talk at this point and that's it. What is important, is the way she put it and what I've been trying to hammer into all of your heads now for like, almost a year now.
Marco asked me to enter this contest. I don't want to. I might just to be a loyal karma pirate.
So for now, Marco, it seems like you have a little something that everyone seems to like. Wish you the best. and....
ak-hem...(clearing my throat) the reason I don't drill Marco about features and the real business is because---he is an associate producer on my film and sort of an apprentice that listens to me and has a strong future in business with me. But I'm sorry Marco, I've just decided to write a 7 page script for this contest (somebody shoot me) and now I'm gonna have to blast you out of the water! RUM CANNONS AND MORE RUM!
EZEQUIEL RAISES HIS COLORS!
EZEQUIEL
Muahaha!! It worked!!
Hey Meredith, our tag-team strategy has paid off, and we've succesfully pulled EZ in to this contest!! Yes, careful planning comes to fruition now! Next we need to lure him to be one of the 10 directors who shoots the winning script, also! :)
Although I admit, chances of that are narrow. I hate to say this, but I have to agree that making shorts just in and out of itself is not very productive career wise. There are benefits in the practice for sure, the experience, the whole "learning to walk before you run", etc... but if you have all that already and just need career advancement... then shorts dont help a whole lot. John Hill said as much on the radio show, also. Time to move to the next stage. Kinda like school, first grade you write scripts, second grade you shoot some shorts, third grade you make a feature, fourth grade you distribute it and make good money :) I'm in first grade (maybe) moving to second. EZ was in second for a long time and moved to third just now, and so on.
But hey, Lady Vengeance is right, but think of -why-: its because sometimes we can only do what we can only do at the moment, not what we dream of doing, or what we'd like. If this DVD makes money (I hope it will!), some of us will be one step closer (at least as far as resources go), to making a feature next. All in steps :)
Anyway, for now..... I cant wait to see what you come up with, EZ! Gotta be funny, gotta be scary, gotta be "Practice Makes Perfect", and 9 to 13 pages long! Show your colors!
BLAH
I JUST WROTE 7 PAGES. I can't do anymore. Writing another short felt like fucking a fat chick. It's just too easy. I'll submit it. If anyone wants to work on it, and bring it to those 9-13 pages. they are more than welcomed to. I don't know if it's funny. But I'm sure that who ever wants to take it on can bring some humor to it. I don't know. Gotta go clean the pool now. It's still full of fake blood and moss and blah.
-e
EZEQUIEL
Wouldn't fucking a fat chick
Wouldn't fucking a fat chick take more work??
Sympathy for Lady Vengeance
Sympathy for Lady Vengeance is such a great movie. I bet Marco would like it. Victor too I bet.
So angry...
So angry...
You know...I have to admit,
You know...I have to admit, I disagree with nearly everything you said in that past. Although, honestly, if someone told me the earth was round in that same tone, I'd probably disagree with them.
SO YOU DISAGREE
Of course you disagree. You have not accomplished what I have. You have no knowledge of the movie business. You've never sold a script for a lot of money or have been in Madonna's office while she's wandering around just before you prepare for a meeting at her movie company. What tone are you talking about? The tone of reality? I try to offer insight here, but then you come at me like this? Maybe you know better. Why don't you school me?
You know...I have to admit--I would love to have a beer with you in Hollywood some day.
EZEQUIEL
Wow...
Are you just fucking with us now, Zeke? Or has making a feature really made you this big headed? I mean, I know you like to put on this little persona and fuck with people, so if that's the case...cool. And if not...well then that's the tone I'm talking about.
Are you telling me you don't know anyone who's sold a script that alks out their ass? I'm sure Hollwood is FULL of them! Just because you've sold a script doesn't make you a credible expert. Nor does waiting in an office for a meeting (the one you were escorted out to the parking lot afterwards, perhaps?). I talked about zombies, Dennis Hopper, and the future of global superpowers with John LIguizamo... big deal. Name dropping doesn't lend me credibility.
As for shorts being a original, of course that's important!! Now I'm not saying they have to be mind-blowingly original, fuck features can't even do that unless, maybe, you're Charlie Kaufman. But any story you tell should be fresh, yes, otherwise why do it? I agree a short has a bit more leeway than a feature since, by nature, it's less complex, but to say "who cares if it's original???" That's the final defense of the hacks...and you're better than that.
But maybe it goes to this sudden hate of shorts...if they shouldn't exist, then why should they be original, is that it? But there's many reasons to make shorts!! YouTube would be a sad and desolate place, filled only with people's reactions to 2girls1cup if there were no shorts. Hell, this site wouldn't exist if it weren't for shorts. Most of the successful director's started making shorts Sam Raimie, Steven Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Ezequiel. Yes, it is practice...or maybe a mirror of your talents. Of course there's huge differences between making shorts and features, but it's still storytelling. Better to learn you can't tell a story or engage an audience on a short than maxing out 4 credit cards doing so. I've learned tons making my shorts, and each one becomes longer and better. But I havn't even mentioned the number one reason I make shorts:
It's fucking fun!! That's why I got in the business...that's why I dream of doing this for a living. It's so much fun to make movies! And if I'm not making a feature...if I don't have a script that I feel is ready, or the money to do it yet, well, I might as well occupy my time making shorts. And with said shorts, I hope to be inspired for my script, and attract the attention of people with money.
Anyway, that's what I have to say on the subject...school's out. Don't take it too personally, I like you, I'd be glad to have that beer with you as long as I can stick to something more froo frooey. And I probably wouldn't have been as harsh as I was, but I seem to recall a conversation with you where you were wishing for more conflict and wave making. So, Ezequiel, I did it for you. Just don't be such a douchebag...it doesn't suit you.
If you enter a short film
If you enter a short film into a festival, you're not going to win an audience or panel award unless its something different and unique, and that kind of exposure is good because you're showing people you have skills.
I know this wasn't written in response to me but I'm just throwing in my two cents. Any film you make whether it be a short or a feature needs to be personal in some way. Making a short can be good for both the technical practice and as well as the part where you dig deep into your characters and who they are as people. You need to have something to say in some way or else you'll end up like the director of Catwoman. Make good short films, just don't plan on being the next Spielberg through making them. Save the big idea for your feature.
life's too shorts
I hate it when people read a short script or see a short film and say "that isn't original" "it's been done to death" "blah blah blah" SHUT THE FUCK UP! It's a fucking short film!
I still remember back in the ON THE LOT days when people hounded me for Unwritten Law cause it wasn't original. Who the fuck cares. A short film will never get theatrical release or make anyone any money and they aren't supposed to be the next Star Wars in five minutes or less
I agree with this. I'm just currently working on shorts for the practice, I'm not looking to be the next Rodrigueze, Tarantino, or Nolan through them. That's later on my list.
ON PRACTICE
Shorts are good for practice for sure. I wouldn't take back my experiences making short films at all. In fact, I cherish those experiences. I learned a lot. I learned even more making my feature. And there is a contradiction within me on this subject, cause now, I hate short films. I hate my own short films. I could say that my shorts prepared me for the big picture, but after shooting a feature, I don't believe they did.
Making a short is nothing like a feature. Most of my shorts I shot in one day. Some elaborate stuff if you're familiar with my work. So I thought, I would take that p.o.v in shooting my feature--as if I was shooting a short every day for 14 days. And boy was I wrong. Real men wear pants, kids wear shorts. It was extremely challenging. And at times, not fun at all. And at times, fun as fuck. But for the most part, an experience that won't be forgotten. Working with a ton of talented people is beautiful. I think that that is what I'm most proud of. I found an ensemble cast and an ensemble crew. Without them I'd have nothing. And there are many people that even weren't on the set that contributed to the making and I owe them more than a big thank you.
Back to short films. Pointless. I know this cause I've been there. Anyone can make a short film. You guys really need to strap those war boots on and go make a feature. You can do it. Yeah, there is a brick wall in front of you, but fuck, whip out that sledge hammer and bring it down! If you are in your early twenties, now is the time. If you're in your early thirties, just right, but not hard boiled. If you're in your forties, start praying--you have a better chance of meeting jesus at that point. If you have a lot of money and talent to hire, then it's yours. If you live in Kentucky and you're near forty with no money, forget it. Make videos for youtube and enter contests and show your family your little film next thanksgiving and sign an autograph for your aunt and neighbor.
EZEQUIEL
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
I saw Dov Simens seminar last year in San Fran, it was hilarious and entertaining. Almost as good as the Firewalker Seminar I saw with Tony Robbins.
He literally yelled at the top of his lungs at the class "stop making shorts!!"
The irony though, was he pretty much (in my opinion/in so many words), told evevy one not to make a features either, because virtually ALL FEATURES LOSE MONEY!
Then, he preceded with the undertone of if "we were stupid enough to pursue filmmaking" he will show us how to do it.
I am not making this up.
Everyone has their reasons for pursuing this field, not everyone has the same goals.
I have seen 90 minutes of miniDV tape edited together, bad story, bad editing, bad acting, even got distribution, but at least "they made a feature."
Back to Dov Simens: He makes a big distinction between a "feature length video tape" and a "movie."
What is a "movie"? According to Dov, the guy Quentin Tarantino "listened to and launched his career," A movie is a film/video that is played at a Movie Theater.
Not a theater you rent out and show to a hundred locals.
A "movie" is one that is released to theaters.
So are we talking about "movies" or "feature length videos/films"? There is a big difference.
Of course, I am in "short land" right now, so this is all BS to a degree.
Most of the time, the key to making a feature, or even a short, is getting the money, not necessarily having tons of talent.
Success is where opportunity meets preparation.
Some of us will get some luck some wont, but experience with shorts, and having a feature project loaded up and ready to push is all we can do.
Speaking for myself, I was not ready to do this 10 years ago.
I had other priorities. Like starting/having a family and business.
It's definately a dynamic process.
JOHN MEREDITH
WWW.MEREDITHFILMS.COM
Anyone can make a short
Anyone can make a short film...not anyone can make a -good- short film.
The Wisdom of doing
Back to short films. Pointless. I know this cause I've been there. Anyone can make a short film.
Yeah, and anyone can make a film (especially today.) Doesn't make it a good film, a polished film, a professional film, or even a film worth making. It is just a film.
The thing is, I really do agree with you in many respects, making a short is nothing like making a feature. Two completely different beasts. Processes, pacings, etc.
However they do share some things, working on a script, working on a set, budget issues. So there is some small value. However being able to make good or extraordinary shrot films, doesn't necessarilly translate into making good feature length films.
The thing is, EZ, you can tell everyone this, but it won't do anyone any good until they go learn it for themselves. You have learned it, and you are better for having learned it. You would not be the same if you had just jumped into making the feature, because someone told you short films were of no value.
Making mistakes, and getting lost, has a tremendous amount of value.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
I was thinking
to do the Marco scrpit whatever, entering the contest or not
but who knows, what is Ez coming up???
can´t wait
I believe in the power of media
I believe in the power of the storytellers
and I believe in....
ha ha ha
Capitan, I would be honored!!
Victor, if you did that, I would be so grateful I'd happily create a spanish script for you :)
And yeah, I'm curious to see what EZ comes up with.... he said it was so easy and it only took him some hours... and he said it was like doing a fat chick... man, so many promises... now it'd better be good, EZ!
....pressure! pressure!! :) muahaha!
CAPITAN PECENO!
I just wanted to bow in respect Capitan Victor Dracula. There aren't many who have earned my respect, but you certainly have, and would sail into battle side by side to ready those cannons!
EZEQUIEL
Welcome Back Captain Ezequiel!!
too many battle we had fought together
I know you better than others, and I know all about your great heart
I am really thinking to film your "The House of the Smoking Guns"
Rum Ez, let´s go to sail again like always
Hey Marco
it is really difficult that some one could change my mind
I like camp machete
I was really thinking to do that whatever, out of the contest or whatever
I like your script I want to made it
but just one thing, I have alredy done an idea for Christmas season, it is the first in the list
it could take just one week this holidays
next meanwhile I am preparing my first lenght featured movie, I would like to do another short
and "Camp Machete" has all the tickets...
Question on VOAT
I was curious about the $250 rule. Does it still apply? Does that cover location fees?feeding the crew, transportation? What about rights, specifically music rights. I can't imagine being able to get the rights to a Metallica song for $250, unles you know them. Besides that, $250 won't pay for one professional crew member. The Budget for the Damon Diamond piece I posted was $1500, and many of the limited crew were fairly green. I don't know what they were paid, but even at $100 a head for crew, and not paying actors (Do defferements count in the budget?) It will be hard to stay anywhere near to $250.
Also, I want to use a SAG actress, how can that work? Once it is distributed outside fof film festivals, they must be paid.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
250 smackeroos!
Man, the sad truth is that in an effort to cast a net as wide as possible, we made 250$ the budget number to include everything! I think you called this "living in the toe", once, and you know what it means: zero or no crew, volunteer actors from the community theater maybe, mcdonalds meals on a two-day shoot, tops, etc. If you can find it in the 250 to pay a SAG actress, go for it by all means. The second reason why we're set at this figure, is because we want the winning director to stand out on his skills alone, not so much on superior resources. Budget, like script, is one more thing we baseline in this contest to spot what makes a director's voice unique. Best of luck man!
P.S. If everyone agrees, I can raise the budget to 500. Should I put a poll on it? what does everyone else think?
Money, Money.
This would really be a good topic by itself.
Yeah, Living in the Toe, been there done that, not going back. Win or lose the Voat screenplay, I'm going to make my film (Contractor's Special - http://www.karmacritic.com/node/2401), and spend as little as possible, but not be capped by an impossible $250.
I want to discuss this now, not because I'm against it, but the details really need to be addressed, before someone says, oh man that person broke the rules, if I had known I could change the Actors age or Gender, or cut some dialog, i would have made those changes. But you had to shoot the winning script.
Look, Sag actors are free, sort of, on short films, if they want to do it for deferred. The short film rate (actually Under $50,000 budget - I think that is the number) It is $100 a day deferred until the film is sold or distributed (DVD sales count), Plus I think Agent fees and Pension and benefits, which make it about $150 a day, not sure about the rehearsal days with the short film agreement. Info available at sagindie.org
But budget #'s are too easy to play with. This is the "Movies", a film can gross $230 million dollars, and still lose money. and while I understand the idea to "level the playing field", I've run across that when jusdging film competitions, it doesn't really work.
I mean, if you are a great director with actors, but a lousy camera person, or don't have a good sound person willing to help you, your film will most likely be unwatchable/un listenable, and how will that showcase your talents? I have a little PVC pipe track dolly, makes a difference having that, Oh if Only I had a jib arm for some shots. BUDGET. Right filmmaking gear doesn't count, but what if you rent?
I'm not knocking the idea of a budget limit, but I don't think it is actually workable.
I need three locations for my short, really two, but because of budget issues, One location will be shot in two different houses. I'd do it that way no matter what the budget because to change the locations to fit the script, as they change in the film, would be too difficult and expensive. Cheaper and better to shoot in the two different basements, even with shooting on different days. Although I really want to shoot in the basement Brendan used in "The Call."
Both those locations are free, What is not not free for me is a camp (Machete), and I've have to make up a sign. Also, Since one location is my sisters basement, and she owns a Pizza shop, guess what, FOOD is free. But how many people have that?
Are we submitting budgets with the film? And Who will check to see these are accurate?
I may be taking this to an extreme, but the budget limitation doesn't make sense. If my food is free that leaves me more money tro spend on something else, which is not fair to someone who is paying for his cast to eat.
*********** At this point I have to say that if any filmmakers here think it is okay to make your cast (or crew) cover their own tranportation, lodging, or food costs, you are at the very least unprofessional, and more likely disgusting, and deserving of having your ass kicked. I say this because there are some filmmakers out there who have made many films and think it is okay to do that.**********************
But anyway, this limit thing, while interesting, and offering a challenge, won't work budget wise. It isn't like a two day time limit, or the script limit (and how much changing of the script can we do to fit our vision? alter dialog a little, change characters Gender/Age?)
Also look at it like this, You want to run a race to see who is the fastest, so to make things "fair" you "Knee Cap" all the racers. Who really wants to see a film all hand held, with bad lighting, and bad sound, and bad acting, because there wasn't enough money to pay for crew, and since the director is doing everything and concentrating on lighting, and audio, and camera work, how can he concentrate on the actors performance?
Still to be discussed, Music Rights clearance. Metallica isn't giving away the rights to their songs. This is more than a money issue. AS filmakers who want our work protected, we really have to be responsible in protecting the works of others by not stealing them. more than 8 bars from a song without permission is copyright infringement, whether or not you get caught. Whether or not you've gotten away with it in the past or not. Whether or not you are making money off the piece or not. If someone was using your work in theirs, wouldn't you want a credit of some kind, recognition? Maybe some money back since you soent money to make this, and they are getting it for free? What if they were making money off of your work?
Also going to need some kind of release forms, and location releases. Have to put all that on the filmakers thogh. If someone gets hurt or there is damage, you don't want Karma Critic to be held liable now.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
I"m not saying you're right
I"m not saying you're right or wrong. I understand what you're saying completely. But remember that you're in a different legue than alot of us. I've made every one of my shorts for under $250.
There is no right or wrong.
I've made a bunch of shorts for way less than $250 each, or even total.
Money spent doesn't mean all that much. Richard Linlaetter (sp?) did "Slacker" for like $20,000, but he got lots of stuff for free.
The budget depends on the film. You're not doing "The Dark Knight" for $250 dollars.
Beyond that, there are other things to consider. Is this just a bunch of guys just running out for a weekend to have fun and shoot something? in that case, yeah, pretty much I'm beyond that.
I saw the entries for the Eastern region of the student academy awards way back when i was in college. Not the winners, but the entries. ONe year, the best film bar none, absoloutely blew every other film out of the water was "The Lunch Date." a gritty no lights, M.O.S. tale that was shot in Grand Central Station (I'm sure they didn't pay to rent the station.) Very inexpensive. This film could have been shot in many different ways, but it was a film that could be shot in the way it was.
At some point, it has to stop being about just shooting something, otherwise you are wasting your time. Now, me, I'll shoot my script because I like it a lot. Whether the script is the winner of the comp or not, I'll shoot it. If it is the winner, I'll have to choose between spending the money needed, and disqualifying myself, or making the film with the contest limits. Perhaps I will shoot the winning script, and do it in the contest limits, that could be fun, if the film can be shot that way. One Room, One actor. Hmm perhaps I'll try to write another that can be shot super cheap.
Anyway, making an anthology DVD, there are issues. The $250 limit would really prevent the using of Sag actors, but not professional actors. Perhaps Dawn will get her "scream" on and someone in L.A. will cast her (probably guaranteeing a win for the film.) But there are issues. I have a highish end DV camcorder. I've already asked someone with an HD camera to bring the camera and operate. If I get that for free, is that fair to someone who only has access to a VHS-C camera?
That is why, although I understand the $250 limit, it doesn't work. If you're asking to shoot a film for $250, then it has to be the right film, the right script.
Now go read my script. http://www.karmacritic.com/node/2401 Vote for it, give me feedback.
Let me know if you think it could be done for $250. I have my doubts,
but I'm curious to see if others think it could.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Steven, you convinced me
You know, I think you make a lot of points.
Here's the few that matter the most to me personally:
I'm leaning towards yes. I'm leaning towards killing the budget cap, and let everyone do the best they can, so that 1.- no one will get angry at me for disqualifying someone (or NOT disqualifying someone), and 2.- we reward the business savvy of the director, which after all, its a big part of making movies.
So aye. Unless someone gives me some powerful arguments, I think the budget cap should be off. What does everyone think?
P.S. If Camp Machete wins, I'd at least try to get the license from Metallica, if they say no, we'll just have to create a sound-alike, kinda like ED's intro to KarmaCritiques on the radio show, which is a knock-off Indiana Jones :)
The Cap
Ban the cap, woo hoo.
Some festivals ask you what your budget was, could be a way of classifying the films.
As for Metallica, I've been told it can be cheaper to "buy" the music, and have another band play the song. Better if they sound like the band they are covering.
That tidbit came from an entertainment attorney.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Camp Machete
Funny, ha ha funny, not funny strange. I think more a spoof, and a little wordy at the end, so perhaps a farce, but funny and scary, and intentionally so. Just missing some old guy in a mask at the end saying "And I would have gotten away with it too, if not for you kids."
Possibly with some rewrite it could be less of a spoof, and the character who realizes he is in a film could be made to work. Realizing you are in a movie, never works (just my opinion.)
I wonder how anyone would do this for $250. Not me, and not do it justice. So I'm glad the cap is gone. I give it a nine, and a lot of admiration.
Note, I just read the feedback you gave my script, and I feel I've let you down. The truth is, Your script, really could be longer, which is from me a big compliment. It could be longer, and still work. You have a really nice blend of spoof and suspense. I think the transitions from one to other are hindered by the shortness of the script. What is nice about your script is that you as the writer know what is going on with each character. Of course in a horror film, as opposed to a drama, that is easier, but still the characters work, even though they are talking about themselves throughout the movie, which doesn't work in dramas.
My biggest problem with the script is the transformation of creepy old guy, it has this feeling of "Oh Well" - for example in Galazy Quest when the ship is about to blow up, and the timer stops at one, and the characters saw "Oh right, it always stopped at one." Funny, but it is pausing. other than that, it solves itself really well, and keeps moving.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Thankee muchly!
Hey man, I'm glad you gave me all this feedback, I appreciate! I wanna state for the record though: reading your entry was no chore at all, it was fun, and I think it showed in the way I wrote some stuff while I flipped the pages :)
On to Camp Mashethay:
You know, maybe after the credits roll, we could cut to the old man removing his old-man-mask and revealing he's actually some sort of monster, then saying "I FINALLY got rid of the nosey kid! Now, to slaughter!" :) Heh!
Alex was funny to work with, cuz he was working against me, the bastard, and I was trouncing him at every way and having fun with it.
Which is also why the old man turned out to be benign, cuz, pardon my french, I was just fucking with Alex to piss him off. Which I did, and so he ran into Pet Semetary :) Kinda like.. breaking the 4th wall from the outside-in :)
I hear you though, about it being an anti-climax. Hopefully the Pet Semetary scene fixes some of that. Or, the one I just proposed in this very comment here, after the credits!
Now, I'm no director, but if I had 250$, I'd spend like 10 making a banner, maybe 150 buying food for the actors and crew, and the rest on miniature tombstones for the Pet Semetary, assuming we had free use of some camp area, which doesnt sound impossible (although then again, I'm an optimist). The Metallica bit though, would have to be worked with. Although... well, its confusing, for instance check this out:
Thats some guy, who edited some clips that some other guy took, from a videogame neither made (SPLINTER CELL, probably "Chaos Theory"), and put them to music of "Imperial March", originally composed by John Williams for STAR WARS. But here's the kicker: who do you think its playing that music? Yup. METALLICA :)
Anyway, we'd cross that bridge at some point, hopefully.
Thanks for all the feedback, I'm delighted you liked the script! Lemme know if that ending after the credits roll works :)
Copyright is tricky
It is tricky, and in the U.S. the laws keep changing, possibly pushed by copyright owners of Mickey Mouse. Trademark is also different. There are somethings I "know" about copyright and trademarks. If you don't vigorously protect your copyright, you could lose it. It is after all only a "reservation" that you hold the right to make copies (note that does not reference money.) There are "fair use" addendums and such, of which I know very little. Educational use - usually trumps copyright. However showing a film in school for entertainment doesn't count, which is why colleges rent the films they show.
Where I used to teach, a Copyright attorney visited the school, and discussed copyright issues with the media students. Well interestingly enough he said this. If you edit footage together that is your edit of the footage, even if you don't own the rights to the footage.. If you don't have the rights to it, then you can't show it, however you own the copyright of the edit and no one can use your edit without your permission, even the owners of the original footage. (Please note, I'm not a lawyer, consult a competent copyright attorney on all matters copyright.)
The internet clouds matters, as it is just so easy to "publish" something on the internet, and at most sites ask you to "promise" that you have the rights to the images, and music. So just because you see something on the inernet, doesn't mean it is there legally.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Priceless
Priceless for the first 10 pages, then it falls apart for me on pages 11-12 and I want my money back;-).
I do love the script up until the ending, but then it reads like "Now what do I do?" Jumbling up and sputtering out instead of going out with a bang is the best way I can describe it.
The Fifi is not your dog? ... That kid was here last night ... wandering around over there ... never mess with the writer ... loses me.
However it ends, I love the idea of the creepy old man saying *something* after the credits to give it a twist.
Take my thoughts for what they are worth while remembering that horror isn't my thing and I don't have much to compare this to!
"The greatest journeys are the ones that bring you home."--The Namesake
Spoiler!
Heheh, well, here's the reason why the ending is what it is:
When Alex thought he was in movie? Spoiler: he was right. He Is in My movie. And when he thinks the writer was playing with him? Spoiler: he was right too! I was, in fact, having a ball with him, screwing up his every attempt to make sense of things, and if he had kept it up, I would have brought UFOs and gremlins and Sarah Jessica Parker. Hence my final taunt to him, after he lost his match against me in the Pet Semetary :)
I write for fun nowadays. THE LONGEST DETENTION was a game to see if I could make a zombie flick without ever saying the word zombies, or showing them, or even giving definitive clues like "the dead are coming back to life", etc. And CAMP MACHETE was a game to see if I could break the 4th wall from the outside in. Its just fun for me to write :)