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Variations on a Salad: 4 films from 8 directors  You guys are funny :) You 8 directors took 11 scripts, and gave us a 4-way tie :) So... Just throwing this idea out there to see what y'all think: Ha Indeed!
Does this still sound acceptable? Can we still sell this in a DVD as an antology? For all instances except Camp Machete, we got the author himself competing against someone else. I guess thats interesting to watch too. 8 directors, please give me your aye or nay. If aye, we'll go ahead and any future votes (for instance, SeriousDog's or Davonie's) would be restricted to either of these four films. If nay, we do a runoff! I dont know how, but we're gonna try to read all of these scripts in the radio tonight! we'll run out of time I bet!! Argh! Submitted by FableForge on January 6, 2008 - 8:48am. |
Variations On A Theme: 10 Films From The Same ScriptUser loginWho's OnlineThere are currently 4 users and 44 guests online.
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My vote as a director
As one of the 8 directors, I say
AYE, what the heck!
Everyone's happier this way, and you're right cici, it may be more watchable to watch 4 small competitions, than 1 really big one.
The only caveat I have is: please lets do our best to keep our word and have this done by May 15th, cuz its one of those situations where a single person can make the other 7 wait and when it comes to whatever meager revenue we could get from a DVD, that wouldnt be nice.
That said, aye, lets do this! :)
I'm on board
I'll do Hellion, as assigned.
Question, what if some director wants to do more than the one script assigned?
Oh and how cruel would it have been if CPParker didn't get assigned to direct her own film?
Horror/Comedy for sure.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Awesomes!
Excellent Steven!!
You know, what I like about this setup, is that all directors got to make a film they said they would, and we have four times more winners. True, we lose a bit on the comparison aspect, but I think Cici is right.. 10-times would have been a bit much. I think it works out! :)
What if some director wants to do more than one short? Man-oh-man, thats a -good- problem to have! Actually its not a problem at all; just like we were allowed to write more than one script, we shall be allowed to do a second film after the one assigned above, it simply means another share when it comes to DVD profits.
Btw, when all films are in, we shall still vote for a winner! And I think the winner should still stand to earn 40% of the profits, despite this latest change of doing 4 films instead of 1. So, onwards and forward!
Me Too!
Of course I think it's a great idea! Now I need to tell Bill to get working on some heads! Wouldn't it be funny if life imitated art? Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have my daughter play that part after all!
So should I start working on
So should I start working on Rudolf?
Affirmative!
Well, I still want to hear what Victor Peceno, Dxarach and OuchMouth have to say... but I doubt they'll say no... So I think you got green light my friend, its just fate that you had to shoot a script by me sooner or later :)
Me, I already made a storyboard of sketches, the first scene will all be one-shot :)
Hehe, I'm excited...
The world has just turned in on itself. lol
Ok, I can do Camp Machete. Personally, I like the 10 films from one script. I think with the diversity in our director list, it'd be like watching 10 different films, especially if each director has the ability to mess with the script. It's different actors, different settings, different in practically every way. Even the script's dialogue can be changed, the mood, the editing, the story's ending, et al. It's a good testament to the "Auteur Theory" and it really is like a science experiment to see what happens.
A film only done twice isn't much variety on that film, but having four films does provide the variety on a theme. So, I guess "Variation" and "theme" still apply. I just feel that maybe the social experimentation of the project gets watered down. Two sample points on a piece of data is hardly as "verifiable" as 10 sample points on that same piece of data. Just my opinion.\
I do wonder though, about the business side of this. With four mini-contests, how do you handle the winner? Who is a winner? You say the winner gets 40%, but what about the other three?
With the breakdown from earlier its:
KarmaCritic 10% (for replication/marketing coverage)
Winning Writer 10% (but now we have four)
Winning Director 40% (but now we have four)
DVD design and compiling 10% (that's me)
And the remaining 30% would be divded among the other "runner ups" (which would be around another 10 people - 7 writers and 3 directors).
Do we say that the other three writers and three directors split the 30%? Do we have a clear writing winner now, since it was a four-way tie??
And, we set a deadline for May 15th. Is this for the films to be completed or are we talking everything? I.E. The commentaries, behind the scenes, bloopers, DVD menus, MASTER disc burnt, etc.??
I'd probably make a great Producer becuase when things change mid-stream, I get antsy about lining ducks in a row all over again. haha
My favorite producer!!
Eric, man, this is why I like you my friend: you make me feel free to "shoot from the hip" knowing you got my back on the logistics :)
Okay, lets think:
First, we only share the profit, and we define profit as whatever difference remains when you substract the unitary cost from the unitary price. In other words, if we sell each DVD for 10 bucks, and it costed 4 to replicate it, then 6 dollars is our profit, which is the only portion we split amongst us contestants.
And here's how we split it:
10% to you, Eric, for Production Services rendered!
The remaining 90%, are just my proposals:
25% to the best film. I motion that we should still have a solitary winner for phase 2.
65% remains...
7% to all other non-winning filmmakers. Thats seven people, so 49%, so:
16% remains...
4% to each of the four winning writers of phase 1. Thats 16% and we're done!
How does that sound?
Percentage to Dollars
Ok, I forgot we said that on the replication.
I like percentage break down, but I also like to talk what that means dollar amount. And, I'm just throwing this out there, it's all debateable until forms are drawn up.
I think $20 is a good price. I looked in to replication costs for CDs for the radio show... it was too cost prohibative, but here, we're talking DVDs, which are more logistic.
My estimation for replication costs (we also have to figure in cases, bar codes (discmakers provides this for free), jacket sleeves, etc. And, Discmakers will be our best bet for something like this.) Obviously we can disign our own package look, but there are still the material printing costs.
I would guess about $4-$6 per unit price. That's the hope. So, using a "retail price" of $20, for the sake of our example, the percentage break downs would be as follows:
$20.00 - $6.00 (KarmaCritic for replication) = $14.00
$14.00 - $1.40 for production services (10%) = $12.60
$12.60 - $3.15 for best film (25%) = $9.45
$9.45 - $.6615 for seven non-winning directors (7%) to split ($.0945 per person) = $8.7885
$8.7885 - $8.7885 to split with four (16%) winning writers ($2.197125 per person) = $0.00
Can I butt in?
Unless we're going to mass produce these can't we do them in house? I have an Epson R260 that does a beautiful job printing directly on inkjet printable DVDs. I can get 100 cases for about 20 bucks a box and printing the sleeves is no problem either. I also have access to a DVD burner that will do 25 DVDs at a time. I've produced more than200 of my own DVDs for Forever Dead at a cost of about $1.50 per DVD. I can send you a sample if you like?
And I wouldn't charge for labor just materials.
VERY good idea!
I'd be COMPLETELY for this but the hope is to strike up a deal to sell these in stores...which requres a bar code. Those are expensive to buy direct, but replicators can give them out for free becuase it's not much extra to buy an unlimited license as to buying one bar code. But for an individual, the price I've been told is still astronomical.
HOWEVER, having said that...I don't know why I didn't think of this until now...and this is directed to Marco and to whomever else wants to read:
There is a distribution house I can look in to. We won't have to pay anything, if they want it. We'd split profits with them, but they will distribute to places like Blockbuster, etc.
Maybe then we could do some advertising... let me look in to it, but I think our percenage breakdown for what each of us gets is still good.
And if we get distribution, albeit a distribution that's not really grand, would still give us an edge to sell more copies. We'd be more likely to sell more with distribution than with replicating and selling it ourselves here at KarmaCritic. Anyway, I'll do research in to it.
Many cool options!
Lets keep them all in mind, and by May 15th, with all movies done, we begin making the DVD and seeing where we go from there :) I'll say this ahead of time though: Blockbuster=good thing. Same with Netflix. Walmart? Man, Walmart would be the Holy Grail, filled with all five Sankhara Stones in it, and stuffed inside of the Ark of the Covenant (dont forget the upcoming Crystal Skull!).
But we'll see!! Lets make a real cool product!
Mass duplcation
It depends on the number we are making, and how much upfront money.
I use an epson 960 inkjet printing one disk at a time. I tend to charge $5 a disk to clients, ust because I don't really want to do it. Get the Disks at Meritline, comes out to about 4o cents a disk for the disks, not sure how much the ink of course. A Disksaver plastic protector, and all good. For this though we would need a more standard case, and not the Discsaver (or C shell sized).
Primera makes some really nice automatic duplicators, Burn, and print, but they start around $1200 for the system, and who wants to be a dupe house.
If we are talking like a thousand DVD's then probably a Disk Duplicator would be best. I've heard of Diskmakers, but have no experience.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Buisness model
I'm fine with it, but ought not a small percentage go to the running costs of Karma?
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Nah, there's no cost :)
Karma runs on donations, as of this post we still have around 177 dollars left (plus even more that I hold in a different pile for Publicity), and considering we spend like, oh, a quarter a day maybe, we're set for a long while :) Thats the advantage of hosting with nearlyfreespeech.net, we only pay for what we use, there's no set fee.
We're good! :)
Top 3
1. Rudolph
Are you able to shoot one?
Davonie, first off: thanks so much for choosing Rudolf, I'm over the moon about that!
Now, are you willing and able to shoot either of those three films by May 15th?
I kinda made a PROMISE on it...
already right?
AMAZING! now to rebalance:
WOW, great news!
Okay, this means that NimphoNinja98 now ties every other winning film, and Rudolf breaks the tie. Now, we want to have two versions of each film, so considering that, here are our choices:
If another director steps forward to do NimphoNinja98, then thats the piece you can do Davonie. If not, then you can do Rudolf and we'll have three versions of it, unless anyone else has another idea?
Update: You know what, I thought about it better. Just do NimphoNinja98 my friend. Its not fair to have three versions of Rudolf and 0 versions of NN98. NN98 deserves to be made, even as a onesie. Go for it man! :)
Totally confused
Are we still doing mine then?
Nothing's changed! :)
Yes, most definitely you and Peceno are doing Getting A Head In The Business. Everything goes on as planned, the only difference is that Davonie will do NimphoNinja98 :) Everything else goes on unaffected!
Awesome!
I'm glad Cici made it in! Maybe tonight's show should be a two parter. Lot of reading to do!
Shifting the weight over two weeks.
VOAT is already up for a two-parter. Next week was going to focus on the Directors and the "Auteur Theory" of Filmmaking, but maybe...
...Marco...
...read 2-3 scripts tonight and finish the remainder next week on top of next week's focus???
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If you want to be mean...read 2.5 scripts tonight and end the show with those illustrious words:
TO BE CONTINUED. Muhahahahahaha!!!
I believe...
The piece won't be SEDUCTIVE... with multiple stories and multiple creaters.
Explaination and Retailer list
I agree, this is starting to get complex.
I think what Marco is saying, is that if Davonie is to direct, as it stands he'd have to make Rudolf. The other three would be done twice and Rudolf would be done thrice.
If we can get one more director to join, then Davonie would do NymphoNinja98 along with that new director, thus making five films with two versions each.
_______________________________
Message #2: I just sent an email to the distrubution house to see what their process is, and to see what they are looking for. I looked up their about us section - here is a list of places they distribute to (speaking of all five Sankhara stones. haha):
Thousands of independently owned and operated retail video stores and book stores, which also includes:
Barnes & Noble
Best Buy
Blockbuster Video
Borders Group
Circuit City
Fred Meyer Group
Hastings
Hollywood Video
Movie Gallery
SAM’S Clubs
Transworld Group
Wal-Mart
AND... all major internet retailers.
For Future Reference
Besides Direct to Video, they even offer Theatrical Distribution as a service, but on a very limited number of releases. It looks like they only did four films for all of 2007.
Me likey the sound of that!!
Oooohhh!!
We gotz work to do peoples!
And dont worry about the confusion, everything stands as agreed, is just that Davonie will do a onesie of NimphoNinja98, thats all :)
I'll be willing to drop out...
to make it even.
Nah, dont drop out!
NimphoNinja98 is a great script, we'd love it if you could make it, plus, its da promise :)
Eric will take care of the cover, (part of his 10% share!) but I'm sure he'll let us help him (I want a stab at it too!)
Is Sea Dot...
in it also?
She's invited!
Sea Dot, if you wish to partake in our little short film soiree here, feel free to! Right now we're missing a partner for the script "NimphoNinja98", every other script will be shot in pairs. Its fun!
Maybe...
She would be willin to collab with me?
I already started to manipulate NYMPHONINJA.
She knows da Maya Style... and dat would be killaz to use for my current vision that I got of the BEING downstairs needing Br0o0o0o0o0ainz... ;)
Graphics, Logos and Disc Content
I would love help from whomever wants to design graphics or logos for the menus, covers, etc. The more original work, the better. Otherwise, I'll pull from Digital Juice material that I own.
I love the Slate graphic...
Naturally we need the KarmaCritic logo. And if each Director has a logo they use for their company, I would request those too.
Here's my ideas for the content of the DVDs:
Disc 1 - All 8 to 10 films
- All 8 to 10 films' audio commentaries (I still need to look in to how to accomplish this as separate language tracks for the software I have.)
Disc 2 - Behind the Scenes for each film (5 mins each)*
- Bloopers for each film (5 mins each)*
- 3 to 5 minute video bios on all 8 Directors (4 Writers combine with their director bio.)*
* Each Director/Writer edits these pieces themselves.
Disc 3 - Special segment documentary on our ideas about Auteurism. Anyone can participate in this. (I can edit this.)
- PDF versions of the top 5 scripts.
- The KarmaCritic Manifesto II - To share with viewers about KarmaCritic's philosophy and the various stuff we've done - SUBLIM, VOAT, KC Radio, etc. Anyone can participate in this. (I will edit this.)
Sorry to change da subject a bit...
but... wutz da hapz on da 2nd Manifesto?
I mean, would I be able to put my shorts in it?
cuz pieces I made (Off The Lot, The Red Dress, The Knight in Shining Armor, etc.) wouldn't be da way it is if it wasn't for KC. But... I don't have music score release for em.
2nd manifesto will be coming soon.
Well, I tried to edit the above post, but when I hit submit it told me I didn't have access or permission to access that page. I know what happened and I'm curious why it does this.
Marco, is there a way that when someone replies to a post, that that person can still go back and edit it? What happened is that Davonie replied to my post as I was editing it. So when I went to hit submit, I couldn't becuase the "edit" option had gone away.
Needless to say, I have other ideas for DVD content and it can fit on 2 discs, not three. I just don't feel like re-typing that out right now since I lost my edit.
Davonie, I could use clips in it. I actually hope to use clips from all people who put an entry in it.
Audio Tracks
Don't know what software you're using but I know in DVD Studio Pro I just put my commentary on Audio 2.
I love the Idea
tomorrow I have to make some calls, to be sure I have the support I need
and also I have some questions
1- finally the budget is open to everyone?, instead the 250$ that was talked first
I can´t do mine just with 250$
2- We can use the short movie also to participate in festivals everywhere, or just it is only for the DVD
3- who pay the beers to celebrate it?
Let´s made a DVD!!
I knew we could count on you!
My friend, I'm so glad to hear this!
1.- Yes, there is no more budget cap; each of us will just shoot and produce as best we can, no limitations.
2.- Most certainly, you can submit the short to any and all festivals, for you shall own it. By entering this contest, all writers implicitely give unlimited license to the directors. And we'll have that on paper too.
3.- Davonie will pay for all the beers of all the cast and crew in all 8 productions!
Go Pirates!
for shua...
get a couple kegs for after da game... :)
Now wouldn't that be interesting?
If I submit my version to festivals too. We'd be competing against each other with the same movie!
Festival Organizers
will be really surprised about
ha ha
I realized sumtin... I'M OFF
... I'm not in da competition. I'll stay OFF and wait for another... to make it 5 on 5.
Watching 4 on 4 games look awkard anyways, too much spacing for such a big court.
I'll just shoot around at da other rims... WARM UP... :)
Just to nay say
It may be a bit after the fact, but I'll throw out my own two cents...as that's what one does on message boards. Anyway, I'm more smitten with the 1 film from 10 directors (or however many) than 4 from 8...or 5 from 10. Granted the latter might be more entertaining....not as repetitive...but I think it's far less educational and downright interesting.
Of course two directors will probably make two completely different movies....or maybe they'll be strikingly similar. Either way, we've only got one to compare to the other. We don't know what was similar because of style, or because of script. However, with one script and many directors, it more clearly shows what the differences in those director's styles. And the constants between the films can be safely attributed to the need of the story.
Hmm...I don't know if this is coming across as clear as I see it...think it...whatever. Anyway, the point is, my vote is still for one script...if that matters anymore. If not, I'll still play ball with whatever is decided upon.
Still on time
We can made 8 to 10 differents shorts movies
"Karma Vision of Horror-Comedy"
and still we have one script left (if we got 10) for others directors in site to made VOAT
or we can made VOAT next time
somehow OuchMouth make me think he is right
Logistics
Hey OM,
Well, yeah, that was the goal after all: 10 films from the same script! I was willing to go lower, 7 films from the same script, but we didnt get even that. The most we got was 5 votes for Rudolf.
I guess, one option was to take those 5 votes and make 5 versions of Rudolf and sell that, but I felt bad leaving behind some directors who would otherwise have made a film. It also didnt feel fair that the winner was so just by a tiny margin of one vote, specially considering there was a 4-way tie for second place.
Its all about logistics man. If we had gotten 7 people to agree on the same script, we would have been golden. But such is the luck of the dice.
One last thing: I've been realizing that some ideas work better on paper than in reality... while on the radio show, talking to Bill (the first 10 minutes or so), he commented that unless the ten directors really strived not exactly to make the best film version, but rather to make the most unique one... we would have ended up with 10 very similar films. Project Greenlight didnt suffer from this, because their scripted scene was purpousely vague, it was just dialogue and no descriptions nor directions. Here, none of the 11 scripts is vague, I'm afraid we would have ended up with 10 too-similar versions. Or 7. And well, last of all, maybe, (I'm not sure, but maybe), it will have more commercial appeal to the typical walmart buyer in case our DVD ever makes it to their store. We shall see man.
Look on the plus side: you get to make Hellion, and so does veenotph! :)
Looking ahead
The next competition/contest/invitation to play, ought to be a littel different, as you and I discussed.
I think the next one we have Karma vote on the log line. So people submit, and there is discussion, and a log line is formulated.
Then People write and submit scripts. You can opt to direct your own script, or make it open for others to direct your script. After the script period ends, people can make their films, based on their own script, or one of the scripts submitted.
Sort of like this.
"The last man on earth sat in a room, there was a knock at the door."
Which is the opening line from a sci-fi story I once read. There is a very interesting twist, in the case of that story. However doing something like that, where everyone works off of one idea, or the same log line, but can have different scripts, could be a lot of fun.
I read an Asimov Story (I think it was Asimov), written because some Challenge to writers to each write a story in something like an hour, using just the title "Blink."
Different movies from the same script, unles you are going for unique, or different genre's, who knows if it ever would have been so different (It's like star search where apiring actors had to performthe same role in the same scene, usually a slim difference in tepid.). Perhaps if it was same script, and different genres (romance, film noir, horror, action, etc. )
I like this version of VOAT, much more interesting. I'm thinking of doing it with puppets.
The script is but the springboard.
Steven Gladstone
Director/Cinematographer
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
Variations on a Logline
Yup, I kinda see how that would work. We could choose a very well crafted logline, and then make a series of films about it, then call the collection "KarmaCritic on X" where X is the topic.
If its an important topic, it would make important films, although there's a risk of getting preachy. But if balanced, it could work. 10 films about Global Warming. Or 10 films about immigration. Or 10 films about Darfur. Or, just entertainment only, 10 films about seriall killers, 10 films about highschool, 10 films about taxi drivers :)
Heh. Yup, we'll start the next round of VOAT somewhere in April, I guess, if all goes well. Crossing my fingers!
Ok
no problem
let´s go to do that in whatever way
which one is the final decision, 8 shorts two directors doing the same script that is right
plus if we got two more directors will be pretty well
;)
as it stands!
Final desicion is still the table posted at the very top, 8 directors doing 4 films, you get to do Getting A Head In The Business, capitan Peceno! :) Nothing's changed, the only thing that could possibly change, is that we could get another pair of directors to do a fifth film, but that's not confirmed yet.
Best of luck to everybody!
David Xarach present and
David Xarach present and ready for commands, sir.
We're always against the rules, even when we put'em hahahahhaha
Nice to see 4 movies, although the concept of 10 VOAT was priceless... anyway, maybe it will be more marketable in this way, than on the VOAT one... don't know..
You're all gonna freak out with the location I have for CampMachete...
Anyway, I'm falling in jove with the script of Ez, so who knows... maybe someday I will be able to made it, time will say... :)
It feels good to know you can count on people!
You gave me a hint the other day of the location you scouted for Camp Machete... hehehehe! Man, this is why I was glad it worked out this way :)
Maybe in the future we can do VOAT as intended, we need a script that at least 7 directors can agree to shoot, and this time we only had five at most. But I foresee that if this DVD makes money, we'll have a surplus of contestants next time around :)
Gracias por todo, and I'll have you know I'm checking my snail mail every morning anxiously for you-know-what :)
Gracias a ti Marco, it's a
Gracias a ti Marco, it's a great honour working with you... :)
Next time, I will only use Express Mail, it's a shame that USA->Spain through priority mail to only be 5-10 days, and the other way is coming near a month (i'm soo sorry for the package to being late, if it doesn't arrive next week, I will try to resend you another one). Maybe it's matter of the Xmas dates...
Can't wait to start working in you-know-what... ahahah :P
I will try to post some photos of the location soon... guys you're gonna freak out with that damn location!!!
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